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Cherry
13-07-2007, 11:28 AM
http://redding.com/news/2007/jul/11/pope-other-christian-denominations-are-not-true-ch/

Nicole Winfield, Associated Press
Wednesday, July 11, 2007


LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.

Benedict approved a document released Tuesday from his old office, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which repeated church teaching on Catholic relations with other Christians.

While there was nothing doctrinally new in the document, it nevertheless prompted swift criticism from Protestants, Lutherans and other Christian denominations spawned by the 16th century reformation.

"It makes us question the seriousness with which the Roman Catholic Church takes its dialogues with the Reformed family and other families of the church," said the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, which groups 75 million Reformed Christians in 214 churches in 107 countries.

"It makes us question whether we are indeed praying together for Christian unity," the alliance said in a letter to the Vatican's key ecumenical official, Cardinal Walter Kasper, charging that the document took ecumenical dialogue back to the pre-Vatican II era.

One of the key developments from Vatican II, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church, was its ecumenical outreach.

The new document †” formulated as five questions and answers †” restates key sections of a 2000 text the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which riled Protestant, Lutheran and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one Church," said the document released as the pope vacations at a villa in Lorenzago di Cadore, in Italy's Dolomite mountains.

The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession †” the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles †” and therefore their priestly ordinations are not valid, it said.

The Rev. Sara MacVane, of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the document.

"I don't know what motivated it at this time," she said. "But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics."

The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope †” a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.

"This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of Primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular Church," said a commentary from the congregation which accompanied the text.

Despite the harsh tone of the documents, they stressed that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

"However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said.

The top Protestant cleric in Benedict's homeland, Germany, complained that the Vatican apparently did not consider that "mutual respect for the church status" was required for any ecumenical progress.

In a statement headlined "Lost Chance," Lutheran Bishop Wolfgang Huber argued that "it would also be completely sufficient if it were to be said that the reforming churches are 'not churches in the sense required here' or that they are 'churches of another type' †” but none of these bridges is used in the 'answers.'"

The document, signed by the congregation prefect, American Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Saints Peter and Paul †” a major ecumenical feast day.

There was no indication why the pope felt it necessary to release the document, particularly since his 2000 document summed up the same principles. Some analysts suggested it could be a question of internal church politics, or that the Congregation was sending a message to certain theologians it did not want to single out. Or, it could be an indication of Benedict using his office as pope to again stress key doctrinal issues from his time at the Congregation.

In fact, the only theologian cited by name in the document for having spawned erroneous interpretations of ecumenism was Leonardo Boff, the Brazilian who was a target of the former Cardinal Ratzinger's crackdown on liberation theology in the 1980s.

Veronica
13-07-2007, 01:56 PM
zzzz

He really think people care?

Poor man, he leading a sinking ship eh. I read a big theological school had to close down in New York, nobody want to become priests again.

Hawke
13-07-2007, 02:18 PM
I think if people have no respect for another faith, even worse yet, another denomination, then that is no religion to be a part of... Just my perspective

Ocel(art)
13-07-2007, 03:00 PM
it seems that he is working totally against what john paul II tried to do.

apple
14-07-2007, 06:52 PM
He seem to be on he own agenda yes. steups

Nightshade
14-07-2007, 07:25 PM
The Pope is ah politician, he trying to shore up he base and get more money fer he private Jet.

Dessalines
14-07-2007, 08:40 PM
If there was ever a man who desperately needs to get laid (and I don't mean with no Altar boys but with a real woman) is that fella and he friends at the Vatican...

Cherry
15-07-2007, 04:38 AM
i couldn't believe this man saying this in 2007. I feel HE is the anti-christ yes...

Nightshade
15-07-2007, 02:05 PM
So why you insulting meh pope??? and is nun ah yoh damm business wat he do in he public life...., just look at Ted hagerty...he was cured of his homo tendencies....,


If there was ever a man who desperately needs to get laid (and I don't mean with no Altar boys but with a real woman) is that fella and he friends at the Vatican...

Veronica
15-07-2007, 04:08 PM
Is like the Da Vinci Code book say.

In the 80's the Church went broke. Opus Dei bought their way in. Now they want payback, ie the Church going more fundamentalist.

These days child molesting charges is costing even more $$$$ , I mean check this headline today "Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles will settle its clergy abuse cases for at least $600 million. So he need more devout Catholics fast.



All he doing now, is playing it out. This is real genius, because not only is he gonna impress OD by going all extreme here, but he might scare people back into church too.

Cherry
15-07-2007, 04:20 PM
How much money the catholic church really have girl? I sure them pay out like 2 billion already on these child molestation charges...

maribunta
15-07-2007, 04:28 PM
Give yuh money to the catholic church...........daz de only thing to save humanity from de fire brimstone and lava! :rolleyes:

Veronica
15-07-2007, 04:33 PM
They say the Italian mafia used to give them plenty, but they kinda buss now, esp in the States.

Opus Dei get what they want, formal recognition, so they eh go give much more.

Church attendance at an all time low.

So I really don't know where this $$$ coming from?

I guess the Vatican makes money on tourism. And they must have $$$ invested in banks. They might own some diamond mines or Nazi art, who knows!

fensic
16-07-2007, 05:37 AM
i couldn't believe this man saying this in 2007. I feel HE is the anti-christ yes...


There are those of other religious persuasions, especially fundamentalists, who fervently believe that the pope, not necessarily this one, IS the anti-Christ.

I just find the timing of this interesting given that the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles just settled all the suits of sexual abuse allegations against priests for $US600 million.

The one and only church eh.

Nightshade
16-07-2007, 08:42 PM
Wait ah minute...some ah dem Hindu pundits are just as bad....

Fensic...you have ah tulsie tree in yoh yard?



i couldn't believe this man saying this in 2007. I feel HE is the anti-christ yes...


There are those of other religious persuasions, especially fundamentalists, who fervently believe that the pope, not necessarily this one, IS the anti-Christ.

I just find the timing of this interesting given that the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles just settled all the suits of sexual abuse allegations against priests for $US600 million.

The one and only church eh.

Bella
16-07-2007, 09:29 PM
Why allyou picking on the pope? All them evangelist does say if you ent born again you going to hell. So what's the diff? Muslim does say if you ent muslim you going to hell. Hindu does say 'simidimi simidimi simidimi swaha!' and nobody don't know if they telling we we goign to hell too, but we does say 'amen' and cool with it.

fensic
16-07-2007, 10:11 PM
Why allyou picking on the pope? All them evangelist does say if you ent born again you going to hell. So what's the diff? Muslim does say if you ent muslim you going to hell. Hindu does say 'simidimi simidimi simidimi swaha!' and nobody don't know if they telling we we goign to hell too, but we does say 'amen' and cool with it.


Bella, why yuh want tuh spoil people rant all de time so? Eh?